Sofie van den Enk: Welcome to the supply chain talks podcast, the podcast for shippers and forwarders about the latest developments in supply chain. My name is Sophie Vollenk. And in season 2 of this podcast, I will dive into the world of sustainable container supply chains. As decision makers, cargo owners, and freight forwarders play a key role in boosting sustainability in the logistics chain. But how do you build a c o two neutral and at the same time resilient supply chain? And what are the possibilities and standout examples that exist today? I'm ready to explore these possibilities together with container industry experts. And today, for the first episode, we're joined by Matthijs van Doorn, commercial vice president at Port of Rotterdam. Good to see you here. Matthijs van Doorn: Thank you. Sofie van den Enk: Yeah. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Why does this topic matter to you? What do you do? What does your job entail? Matthijs van Doorn: Yeah. Yeah. It matters to, to me because I believe that, we have to build a better world. And we can do that, all of us individually. So, apply solar panels at my house using green energy. But I'm at a fortunate position, to have an even more impact here in the port. So I do see it as my duty to, to green the port, make it more sustainable, and with that, contribute a little bit to a better world. Mhmm. And maybe a bit maybe a bit more humble note. I'm responsible for our customers here in the Port of Rotterdam. So about more than 3,000 companies that, not only build the port, that are in the port, but that also send goods throughout the port. Sofie van den Enk: Yes. So that that's that's your job, of course. And through that job, you you can help inspire people to to work on on on big steps towards more sustainable solutions, and that Port of Rotterdam really wants to help facilitate and drive Yep. That change. Right? Yep. So that's what we're gonna really dive into in this entire series, and this is just we're just getting started here. So it's great to get a sense with you of, yeah, what's possible, what are the, opportunities that that you see here in the port that, people can dive into. So the current position of the port of Rotterdam, of course, is that you are in full transition towards, c o g c o two neutral port and, logistics by 2050. Mhmm. That sounds very far away, but in reality, when you're talking about the the scale of investments and the changes that you're making, actually, that's very soon. Right? Matthijs van Doorn: Yeah. Yeah. It's it's tomorrow or maybe even it was yesterday. Sofie van den Enk: Oh, gosh. Matthijs van Doorn: So there's a there's a quite a big urgency. The port consists of a chemical cluster, or industrial cluster, I have to say. So we're one of the world's biggest petrochemical and industrial clusters, and that's, very much fossil fuel dominated or fossil dominated. So that's where the transition kicks in. Sofie van den Enk: Mhmm. Matthijs van Doorn: In order to make these goals becoming, well, emission neutral or c o two neutral by 2050 or preferably earlier. Sofie van den Enk: Yes. Matthijs van Doorn: This whole industry needs to change. Not only my customers here in the port, but also the, the companies they deal with, the the suppliers, the off takers, their customers. So that's, one of the of the challenges out there. The other part of a port is the logistics part. So, imagine containers coming in from overseas being handled here in a port and being transported towards, well, the Netherlands or further down into the hinterland Yeah. Of the port in Europe. And that's the other big part, where, also well, we believe that we should deliver, an emission neutral supply chain, basically. Yeah. So port is a node in a supply chain, and I see it as our responsibility to not only change the port, but actually change the supply chains. And these are global, so quite ambitious, but we have to do it. Sofie van den Enk: Yes. And because at on the one hand, of course, a port really wants to, facilitate the demands of its customers. So if the demand now is very much fossil fuel, then you wanna provide that. The same time, you also wanna offer an alternative and want to help drive the change. So where where's that ambition for the port? Matthijs van Doorn: Yeah. Yeah. So, we're here to facilitate our customers. We're also here to stimulate our customers and making a change. For that, we do invest in infrastructure. So that's our core responsibility. We're investing in new hydrogen pipelines in the port. We're investing into a carbon capture, possibility. So pipelines to transport, c o Sofie van den Enk: two throughout the port and store it Matthijs van Doorn: in empty gas fields. And, we are lobbying heavily, in the Netherlands, in Berlin, in Brussels in order to, make sure that, this whole supply chain or new infrastructure is being built, further down into Europe. Mhmm. So that's that's, I think, our coral, to to invest in it and to make it possible for customers or to help them make a change, they have, to make their own decisions, obviously. Yeah. Yep. Sofie van den Enk: Yeah. And you but you want to just make it as easy as possible and and and take away any obstacles they might encounter towards their jobs to to becoming more sustainable. Matthijs van Doorn: Yeah. Correct. And and I believe that it works that we put out a vision there. So we have a structured approach how to get through this transition as a port, which is built on building new infrastructure, attracting new raw material flows, attracting companies that will produce, for example, biofuels, and, stimulating or facilitating the logistics sector to use, electricity as a as a fuel or to use hydrogen as a fuel. And that's where we as a port authority play an incubator role. Yeah. So we bring companies together, together. We bring partners together and, where needed. And, Yeah. We we incubate or even invest into new ideas. Sofie van den Enk: In the course of this series, we really get to know a few of these companies and and really see how they do that to to make it, very inspirational to listen to and to see that it's actually already happening and, that, listeners can do it too. So you mentioned, of course, the fossil fuel, that's one segment, but a large part of the port of Rotterdam, of course, is the container segment as well as you also mentioned. So how do you make that segment more sustainable? Matthijs van Doorn: Yeah. So there are a couple of, ways that we do it. One is, of course, also there, the fuel site. So we are one of the biggest bunkering ports in in the world after Singapore, which means that, our customers' ships come in here and, have their ships bunkered Sofie van den Enk: Mhmm. Matthijs van Doorn: Now by fossil fuels, but we, attract, companies that are producing, biofuels. Companies that are importing biofuels in order to make it possible for the ships to green their bunkers, so to say. And Rotterdam is the largest biofuel port, and we are very proud that the first bunkering of Methanol, has been done in the port, recently. So we we are a front runner. So working from seaside to the port, it means that that on this well, the second pillar is efficiency basically. Mhmm. So when ships come in or trains or barges, or trucks, we have programs that are aimed on, let's say, well, efficient portcalls. Mhmm. And just to give you an example, a ship that comes here, with a just in time arrival can save about 14% of its, carbon dioxide emissions Wow. Which is huge. Yeah. But in order to arrive just in time, we may have to make sure that the ship is on time, that the terminals are ready, that the tugboats are ready, the pilots are ready, and so etcetera, etcetera. Yeah. So it's a big, well, it's a big logistical system. Sofie van den Enk: Yeah. That involves a lot of data. In in the course of this series, we're also gonna be talking to Portbase that is trying to gather these data and and and make it work, really, in favor of more sustainable Yep. Supply chains. Yes. Matthijs van Doorn: Correct. So data will facilitate efficient supply chains, basically. Yeah. And efficient supply chains are sustainable supply chains because they're we've reduced the waste basically. Sofie van den Enk: Yeah. And that must be an an interesting perspective also for customers because then the the the the the the knife really cuts both sides when it's an economically wise decision combined with a sustainable one, then you're really Matthijs van Doorn: think so. Absolutely. And I think this is more, let's say, the the transport part of it. I'm very proud that also the customers in the port, are making, well, steps into this sustainability. So we have many of our warehouses are already equipped with solar panels. We have our terminals that, use, let's say, emission well, free or at least emissionless, equipment. So that also the terminal handling gets to 0 emission. And I believe that in these supply chains, we have to, well, convert every single part. So the ship, the terminal, the, inland operation, the warehouse. And at the end, it will give shippers and forwarders the opportunity to operate the zero emission supply chain. Mhmm. And in my view, that's the USB for the port of Rotterdam. And, I truly hope that that USP will not be there for long because it's important that the rest of the world copies us. Sofie van den Enk: Yes. It shouldn't be you. Matthijs van Doorn: Well, they should be sustainable too because then we make an impact for a better world. Sofie van den Enk: Yes. Matthijs van Doorn: But I definitely want to be the front runner, and we have a lot of projects out there where we can say, hey. It's not only talking about sustainability. It's been done Sofie van den Enk: Yes. Matthijs van Doorn: By our customers and our partners and a little bit by ourselves too. Sofie van den Enk: Yes. Definitely. And it's necessary to take these steps not just because the world is in dire need of, change the way it is right now. But, actually, freight transport, is already 8% of of global c o two emissions, but the logistic sector actually continues to grow. So you you wanna really step up your game because if nothing is done, the emissions will be 7% higher Yep. By 2030. So you're sort of in this in this time crunch and and and really, in, like in in a rush to make this happen. Matthijs van Doorn: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So we we calculated for the container segment that in the next 10 years, there's a additional capacity need of about 16,000,000 TUs. Mhmm. So containers. We handle currently, around 40,000,000, and we're ready to accept another 8, which we can do. And it's driven by Western European consumer demand. It's driven by population growth. But we also said, we can deliver it, but we will only deliver it if it's been done sustainably. So, that really puts the emphasis on, yes, growth will be there. Sofie van den Enk: Mhmm. Matthijs van Doorn: It's our responsibility that, trade flows will grow, but emissions will not. Yes. Because that additional 7%, I don't wanna have that you just mentioned. Mhmm. It's my objective to reduce it and to make sure that we can prove that all these containers go through the ports into Europe or out of Europe with a zero emission profile. Sofie van den Enk: Right. Yes. Very ambitious goal because you're basically aiming for growth and reduction at the same time. Yep. Which is, sort of mind boggling in a way. Matthijs van Doorn: Yeah. But it can be done. And and, just to give a couple of examples, the the fuels at the seaside, we we talked about already. So, we have a program in order to make sure that it's not only methanol that can be bunkered here, but also in future ammonia Mhmm. Which is one of the possibilities to run ships on zero emission. We have, a project where we work with inland barges to, to run them on hydrogen or even at electricity. So there are customers out there investing into that, converting their ships from fossil to something green. That's out there. We opened the first area for trucks to to recharge elect electrical. Sofie van den Enk: Mhmm. Matthijs van Doorn: So that's, already out there. We're working with, a company to provide, hydrogen trucking refueling station. So it is happening, which means that at the end we'll get there. And on a side note, we try to stimulate companies by accelerating their, well, transition. One of the nice examples there is, initiative called Semba, where a couple of shippers, joined forces and said, hey, we want to pay a premium for a green supply chain. Mhmm. And, there, the Port of Rotterdam said, okay, we chip into that too. We want to make sure that the premium is up a little bit so it's more attractive to really make a change as a shipper and to negotiate green transport Right. Instead of just, the cheapest transport that you can get. Sofie van den Enk: Yes. And that is that also taps into this sort of larger supply chain because the port, of of course, is only 1, one link in in this whole, chain. Yep. How how do you see, your role in the entire chain? Of course, you already mentioned a little bit about the barges. Matthijs van Doorn: Yep. Yeah. So we we see our role there as as incubator as a partner to work with, with our customers to help them in changing their their way of working. So that's a one. A second part is that we try to, well to lobby or to to gather coalitions to to really make this step up. Sofie van den Enk: Yeah. And then when you talk about coalitions, that's always a bit of a complicated, thing because, in large part, these players are also in competition with one another. Yeah. So how do you get them to cooperate? Matthijs van Doorn: Yeah. Yeah. Well, the the changes out there are so big that I think it's pretty clear that they have to do it together. Sofie van den Enk: Yeah. But that's a new way of thinking. Matthijs van Doorn: That's that's new way of thinking. We we put it in practice by, our greener digital corridor concept with Singapore. So we teamed up with the Port of Singapore, a couple of carriers transporting goods from Singapore here. A couple of producers of, of biofuels or, the the the next sustainable fuels. And then we said we we work out a concept. Make sure that you can bunker green at both ends, both in Singapore and Rotterdam. Work with the carriers to to transport it that way, and work on the the digital side, on, let's say, seamless data flow. So that it's full transparent, that everyone knows where the ships, and and and the containers are. So that's how we, try to put a coalition in there. And in this green and digital quarter concept, there are companies, that are competing with each other. But they believe that, we have to do something. We have to experiment. We have to make a first step in order to to change the world. Yeah. So yes competition is out there but, what we learned over the last years that what the world has changed enough to to really work together instead of competing on this topic. Sofie van den Enk: Yes. To sort of forge this this, this change in in thinking. Are there so this is a great example to to know, as a as a freight forwarder that you can go from Singapore to Rotterdam within within this green, way, corridor. But are there more, inspirational examples of companies that are really sort of seeing the light? Matthijs van Doorn: Yeah. Well, I think, to give an example, the container terminals in the port, Rotterdam World Gateway, APM Terminals, they they put out the ambition to become carbon emission neutral by 2025, and they will achieve it. So for their own operations, they'll use green energy. They replace their equipment for zero emission equipment. They're the first ones to make sure that they will install shore power so that the ships that come into the port can, well use shore power in order to, to not have any emission. Sofie van den Enk: Mhmm. Matthijs van Doorn: So not not, carbon dioxide, no nitrogen, but also no noise, for example, which is also important. Sofie van den Enk: Yes. In the mass flakten, not so much. Matthijs van Doorn: Ma well, it's emission. Right? So it's maybe not in the city, but still, it's emission out there. Sofie van den Enk: Right. Matthijs van Doorn: And, mass rock is big. So if you have 13 of these ships buzzing, then you also hear it in Hoek van Holland. Sofie van den Enk: So, Matthijs van Doorn: yeah, that's that's also how you how you have to look at it. So I think these are, inspirational examples. Sofie van den Enk: Mhmm. Matthijs van Doorn: The the other one on the the inland part is Future Proof Shipping that made the investment to run a hydrogen barge, which runs, from the port of Rotterdam to, one of our customers in Blosserdam, based at Jens. Sofie van den Enk: Mhmm. Matthijs van Doorn: They're building up a network and start using hydrogen barges. So Right. That's also how they can offer their customers, not only sustainable inland transport instead of road transport, but then also green inland transport. Yeah. So these are maybe small examples, but they're the first ones. And to me, they're very inspirational. Sofie van den Enk: Yeah. And what about because, optimization cannot really go without digitization. Are there, inspirational examples when it comes to working more digitally in order to Matthijs van Doorn: Yeah. Yeah. We we started a port community system about 20 years ago where, we said the mission is to turn paper into digital Mhmm. Which they did. So, they they helped the supply chain to to really change to a digital supply chain. Sofie van den Enk: Yeah. And they're working together with members. So Yeah. In order to feed the system. Matthijs van Doorn: Yeah. And and it was very basic, really replacing paper for digital. So no more faxing of, peep pieces of paper and that kind of stuff. Better today is that, they use the data that the port community system has to offer to companies in order to make, well, smart, services. And these smart services are aimed on, efficiency, reduction of emission, for example. Yeah. So that's that's the next step. And if you look a little bit ahead of that, then, we're testing, validating a marketplace kind of setup because we believe that there's a lot of innovation out there and many smart little companies that can make a huge impact. We want to attract them, to a marketplace where they can use the data, supplied by the port community system or by just individual companies, make great services out of it. Sofie van den Enk: Right. That really suits that sort of incubator function that you want to Yep. Want to have. What about the modal shift? Matthijs van Doorn: Yeah. Well, modal shift is one of the, well, one of our big object objectives. A large part of the trucks stay in the port of Rotterdam, which is fine because they they have to deliver the goods here. Mhmm. But we also know that, the roads are congested, in the Netherlands, So we can contribute that by shifting from trucks to, to rail or barge. Sofie van den Enk: Mhmm. Matthijs van Doorn: So we have our ambitions and our targets out there. I think more important is that when motor shift happens, goods will be bundled. So a barge can take 1200 or maybe even 200 trucks at one time. So much more efficient, not only for, road capacity, but also from an emission point of view. Yeah. So that's something that we'll keep on focusing on. We work with, the inland terminals, to see how they can change their concepts. So instead of, sailing to the port making 13 stops over the last years, a couple of bundling concepts have been established, which means that in the hinterlands, the group containers to a barge completely stuff it and then seal to 1 stop in the port or 2 stops delivering all these goods and sailing back. And with that, I believe, that we maximize asset utilization. Because if you do that, at the end, you don't have to produce much more trucks because, they are not needed anymore. Sofie van den Enk: Right. We'll dive deeper into this with, Ricoh's episode. So that'll be very interesting to hear how exactly they they they do this. Matthijs van Doorn: Great. Sofie van den Enk: So that's the model shift. What about the fuel shift? Matthijs van Doorn: Yeah. So fuel shift, is happening. So the methanoid Sofie van den Enk: Slowly. Slowly. Matthijs van Doorn: It's it's slowly, but that's also because the capacity is not there. And, what we see on fuels is that, we have a lot of marine fuels, Sustainable aviation fuels are coming up. So, also, the airline industry needs to become more sustainable and, of course, replacing, good old diesel, I would say, for trucks by something else. It needs time because a supply is not big enough now. That will definitely come, but it may it needs a couple of years. That's also why we talk about transition. You can't simply turn the switch today, and then, tomorrow, we're in a in a new reality. It's not possible. But with our customers, we work on this fuel switch, with, the production side, but also with, the users. So the the carriers, the trucking companies, the, inland barge companies. Yeah. And that's why the, well, the first experiments with hydrogen barges made on all ships, hydrogen or electrical trucks are so important. Sofie van den Enk: Yes. And the fuel switch also sounds a little bit as though we know exactly where we're headed. But, of course, there are also a lot of unknowns. We know where we're coming from, but we don't know exactly where we're going. Matthijs van Doorn: That's the exciting part. You know, we're we're in a changing world. We know a lot, but we also don't know a lot. The way we take it is that we, designed a couple of transition paths, because we know that we have to literally try everything to end up with something. Sofie van den Enk: Yes. Matthijs van Doorn: And what we see now is that, the first step using biofuels has already been taken, using LNG as a fuel already been taken. We have a big terminal here that supplies it. Methanol done the first bunkering. So now we need to scale it. So ammonia is is maybe the the next big thing. Yeah. We're working on that with our customers and our partners. Sofie van den Enk: Yeah. More on that with Haypek Lloyd. We have so much coming up in this series. It's really exciting. So, we talked about, efficiency, of course, through, using data, the modal shift, the fuel, switch or fuel transition. And how does that help shippers and and forwarders to make their chains more sustainable? Matthijs van Doorn: Yeah. So at the end, it, well, will have an impact on their scope 3 emissions, so to say. Yeah. But I believe, more important is that they can tell their customers, consumers, that they produce a sustainable product. Yeah. And which means that the product also needs to be shipped or transported sustainably. It needs that the raw materials have to become sustainable. So it can be circular. That's also something that our industry is working on. And, I believe that that eventually is the core responsibility of, these companies, deliver something sustainable that's being used by consumers in whatever form. So apart from the scope 3, which is nice for the reporting, I think it's their duty. And, we can help them with that by the transition that's happening here at the port. Sofie van den Enk: Absolutely. Shippers and forwarders are are working on on minimizing their footprint to have good reports, but also because it's the right thing. And they're focusing on on the concept of rethinking, reducing, and and replacing, the the the way they they they work their supply chain. Could you guide us through these three concepts because they're going to be helping us throughout this series to understand how to tackle this huge challenge. Matthijs van Doorn: Yeah. Well, reducing is about, literally reducing emissions, for example, by operating efficiently. I gave you the example of the port call, the just in time arrival. That means less emissions. So that's, maybe the the easier part to do. Replace is about the fuel switch. So from fossil fuels to biofuels, methanol, hydrogen Sofie van den Enk: Whatever feeds your system now, make something else feed it that is more Exactly. Matthijs van Doorn: Exactly. So fuels are needed, but let's change them into a good fuse, so to say. And the third one is to to rethink, to do it completely different. And, one of the examples out there is, the transport of reefer containers, which always has been done by truck because, they need a power supply. Mhmm. Sofie van den Enk: Yeah. Because they have a refrigerator inside them. Matthijs van Doorn: Exactly. They have a refrigerator. So on the the the container ship, they are plugged in, but they also need to be plugged in for Internet transport. Well, on trucks, it's easy, but, it wasn't there for barges and for real. And there are a couple of innovations out there where, small, let's say, yeah, power packs are being installed to rail wagons. Sofie van den Enk: Mhmm. Matthijs van Doorn: So that also the reefer container can be put on, a rail in this case. So that's the the motor shift again. The other nice example is, it's called ZESS, 0 emission shipping, where, yeah, battery containers are being used at, inland transport, to fuel, well, barges, basically. Mhmm. And that means that you have to, well, replace these battery containers. So when they're empty, you need to dock anyone. And with that a whole new supply chain is being set up. So we we need to charge battery containers. We need to put them on the ship. We have to offload them again when they're empty, charge them again. And I think the nice part of this is that it will make parts transport sustainable because using green electricity, but also it's an opportunity for grid balancing. Sofie van den Enk: Mhmm. Matthijs van Doorn: And, you know, with sun and wind coming in, there's quite an unbalance in, electricity production. Sofie van den Enk: Yes. Matthijs van Doorn: Well, these battery packs are away just like at home your electrical car can be a part of your grid balancing. Yeah. These battery packs are grid balancing in the port and in supply chains in the hinterland. Sofie van den Enk: Yes. And that, yeah, I get how that would fit into the rethink realm of things because that is such a different way of of looking at things. Matthijs van Doorn: Yep. Yeah. And I think the the nice thing of this example is that a couple of years ago when we launched this idea, there was a lot of skepticism and maybe even criticism, but we teamed up with, a shipper. We teamed up with a bank. We teamed up with, engine pro producer, and ourselves, and, of course, logistical companies, say and said, let's see how we can make this happen. Sofie van den Enk: Mhmm. Matthijs van Doorn: And they're out there now. Sofie van den Enk: Mhmm. Matthijs van Doorn: And, of course, we learn a lot. It costs a lot of money because it's really r and d, but we made a step forward that, everyone thought that couldn't be possible. Yeah. And I'm really proud that, we did it because there's, I think, incubating in Optima Pharma. Sofie van den Enk: Yes. And it and it really helps inspire a change in in others as well because rethinking might be the the scariest one of the 3 you mentioned. Reducing and replacing, I guess, are more straightforward than rethinking because it sort of involves letting go of what you have and trying to conceive of something entirely new. Matthijs van Doorn: Absolutely. Sofie van den Enk: But that's actually what's necessary because of the changes we're facing. Matthijs van Doorn: And I think the cool thing is that we're in this together, and we can make the impact Sofie van den Enk: Yes. Matthijs van Doorn: By trying, by investing, by rethinking. Sofie van den Enk: Thank you so much. Talking to you makes me have a little bit of faith in us actually accomplishing this. And, yeah, it's it's really inspirational. Thank you so much. I the quote that you mentioned, try everything to change something will really stay with me. I hope that, as a listener, you feel excited to explore this whole series because during these upcoming episode, we will really dive into how the transport and logistics chain can be decarbonized, focusing on these three principles, reduce, replace, rethink. And joining us are leaders from supply chain companies really deeply involved in these efforts to help inspire you, jump, on board. Thank you so much, Matthijs, for joining me for this very first episode. Pleasure. And, clarifying how the Port of Rotterdam is really building on a c o two neutral container chain with, all its chain, parties and partners. In the next episode of supply chain talks Martijn Spee: Yeah. It's it's we we have a software, where we upload all our supply chain data, so all our shipments, and its software is calculating your footprint. So you really need to get insight first before you can actually improve. Sofie van den Enk: If you wanna know more, check out portofrotterdam.com/containershipping Thank you so much for joining in on this very first episode, and I'm looking forward to sharing way more with you. So please stay with us and tune in again.